Behind the Bluff
Uncover best practices to participate in life on your terms. Every week, hosts Jeff Ford and Kendra Till guide listeners with short conversations on trending wellness topics and share interviews with passionate wellness professionals, our private club leaders, and additional subject matter experts offering valuable tips. Each episode conclusion includes Healthy Momentum, five minutes of inspiration to help you reflect and live differently. Subscribe now and discover the keys to living your greatest active lifestyle.
Behind the Bluff
Diving into the Rich History of Palmetto Bluff | Katie Epps
Discover the captivating story of Palmetto Bluff's early history with our distinguished guest, Katie Epps, the Director of Cultural Resources at Palmetto Bluff. Growing up amidst the historical richness of Charleston fueled Katie's passion for uncovering the past, leading her to become an archaeologist with a knack for storytelling and a love for the outdoors. We kick off our three-part series on the history of Palmetto Bluff by transporting you back to its prehistoric and colonial eras, revealing a remarkable timeline of human activity that stretches over 12,000 years. Tune in to hear Katie's fascinating journey into archaeology and how her experiences, including working with the Army, have enriched her understanding of this intriguing locale.
Have you ever wondered what it takes to become an archaeologist? In this episode, we'll guide you through the educational pathways and challenges faced by those in the field, from earning a bachelor's to pursuing a doctorate for teaching or leadership roles. Katie shares vivid tales from the trenches of fieldwork, where the realities of archaeology meet the unpredictability of nature. Along the way, you'll gain insights into the continuous narrative of Palmetto Bluff, learning how its story interweaves with broader historical events up until the late 1700s. Join us for an engaging exploration of Palmetto Bluff's past, and be sure not to miss the next segments as we journey through more layers of its vibrant history.
Are you ready to live an active lifestyle? Welcome to Behind the Bluff, where we believe every moment of your life is an opportunity to pursue wellness on your terms. I'm your host, jeff Ford, and I'm joined today for a very special first episode with Katie Epps, director of Cultural Resources here at Palmetto Bluff. Katie completed her undergraduate studies at the College of Charleston and she earned her master's degree from the University of South Carolina. Among other things, katie is responsible for maintaining and restoring cemeteries. Katie is responsible for maintaining and restoring cemeteries, she provides educational outreach programs for the public our members and she ensures the archaeological resources of Palmetto Bluff are protected or mitigated. She has a big job here on property. Today we are going to begin our three-part series yes, everyone. Three-part series on the history of Palmetto Bluff. Today we are going to begin our three-part series yes, everyone. Three-part series on the history of Palmetto Bluff. Katie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Jeff. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I am so excited that we can finally get together. This really should have been the first three episodes of Behind the Bluff, to be honest. So I'm going to go ahead and set the stage for the three different segments that we're going to be honest. So I'm going to go ahead and set the stage for the three different segments that we're going to be sharing over the next three weeks. And the first segment today is going to cover the prehistoric and colonial history period. So this is the beginning years of Palmetto Bluff, all the way up until 1770, the late 1700s.
Speaker 1:Next week we're going to go into the historic period which will take us through the end of the Civil War, so 18th century up until 1865. And this is termed the Antebellum Era, which will explain more of what that means. And then our final series is going to be from 1865 all the way up until the here and now. Now, katie obviously has more of the details behind the years and the timing of the history, so, don't worry, we will dig into those details as we dive into each segment. So, katie, before we get to this first period of time at Palmetto Bluff, could you please share a bit more about your background with our listeners?
Speaker 2:Sure, jeff. I am originally from Charleston. I grew up there and fell in love with the history. I grew up in West Ashley and right down the road from a lot of the plantations and because I grew up there, the school trips were very history-oriented, so we went to a lot of the plantations, dock Street Theater, and I fell in love with it. My mom was a schoolteacher and she had to go to bed early to get up early, and so my dad and I would stay up and watch the History Channel when I fell in love with history. But I did not want to be inside doing research all the time. I wanted to get dirty and be outside and have fun. So I realized that archaeology was what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like from an early age you were always interested in history and learning, but the outdoors was a big piece of what you wanted to be a part of and learn more about.
Speaker 2:It was yeah, I wanted to be more hands-on.
Speaker 1:Very cool, very cool. Now, after you got your master's degree from South Carolina, how did your career take you to Pummelman Above?
Speaker 2:So I actually finished my master's when I was down here.
Speaker 1:Very cool here.
Speaker 2:So I moved, finished my thesis work and finished my thesis in 2004, the fall of 2004,. November of 2004, actually took a job as the crew chief and then became the direct the field director for the contract firm out here. So I worked here from 2004 to 2008. We finished the field work, worked myself out of a job and then I moved on to working as a contractor for the Army at Fort Stewart and Hunter Army Airfield.
Speaker 1:Very cool. There's some diversity there for sure. Now, what does it take to become an archaeologist? Like, what are the steps?
Speaker 2:Walk us through that a little bit, so to be an actual archaeologist you have to have your master's degree. So you can do archaeology work as a field tech or a lab tech with your bachelor's degree. But to be an archaeologist you have to have your master's. And if you want to teach or head a company, then you need to get your doctorate.
Speaker 1:Very cool, yeah, yeah. Well, it sounds like a few steps to get to the level that you're at, and we're so grateful to have you Now. The history is obviously vast here at the Bluff. What do you find most fascinating about it?
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing. What's most fascinating to me is that, because the history is so vast, because it is everything from the earliest people here, 12,000 years ago, all the way up to modern day, it's been utilized the entire time. So it's just amazing.
Speaker 1:Now taking a step back. You mentioned going into the field as an archaeologist. What does that entail? A lot of ticks. It's just amazing. Now taking a step back, you mentioned going into the field as an archaeologist.
Speaker 2:What does that entail? A lot of ticks, poison, ivy. But it means going out in the field and excavating and finding out where the artifacts are through a very systematic process. We excavate in a grid pattern, find the sites, find where the concentrations of artifacts are so that we can put larger units in. We work in the metric system, so put in two meter by two meter units and then sometimes bring in mechanical machines to do mechanical stripping.
Speaker 1:That's very cool and I think that some folks who live here on property maybe don't even know that we're out there excavating artifacts and creating these sites. How many different sites are there here at Palmetto Bluff? Rough estimate?
Speaker 2:Over 100.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, Very cool Now. Have we discovered any new sites recently or in the last 10, 20 years? Have we?
Speaker 2:discovered any new sites recently or in the last 10, 20 years?
Speaker 1:Well, in the last 20 years.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, so we the 20,000 acres every 30 meters was excavated. There was a hole, 50 centimeter by 50 centimeter hole that was excavated and that either showed there were no artifacts there or artifacts. And then from there in South Carolina, you have to have three artifacts to be a site, and then there's different steps whether it's significant if it's potentially eligible for the National Register, eligible or not eligible, and it really depends on the significance of it. And it really depends on the significance of it.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of things that play into that, including you know. Is it going to tell us more information about the past? Yeah, yeah, there's a few steps. I know like making it an official artifact isn't an easy task, right, very cool to get the high level kind of look at how much sites and art of, like the level of artifacts that our property holds. And I'd have to agree, palmetto Bluff is so fascinating fascinating because it's of its vast opportunities here and so, from a history perspective, I can't wait to learn more. So let's get to the very beginning Describe the prehistoric and colonial history period, get a little more detailed with the span that it covers and what we're about to dig into. No point intended, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the first people that were here were 12,000 years ago. We have evidence of that because we have points Clovis points and so we know that they were coming here. The landscape was very different then and the ocean was 50 miles further east than it is now, so they weren't coming here to. They were. This was just a stopping point. They were traveling through the land to the resources that they were trying to reach. So we have the stone tools for that, and then we were able. You know, we found a lot of different points. Pottery, most people think, has always been around, but it's actually only 4,500 years old, and so you know we can, based on the types of stone points and the artifacts, the sherds that we find, we can date who was here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes sense. Now what's a stone point? Exactly.
Speaker 2:So most people would probably call them arrowheads. We call them projectile points. In general, the bow and arrow is only 1,500 years old, and so most of the points that we find are actually for spears, or what we call bifaces. We have stone tools that are bifaces, which I call the Swiss Army knife of the past.
Speaker 1:Wow, and that specific tool was used for hunting other activities tool was used for hunting other activities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bifaces were used, um really for scraping, um, you know, um cutting those type, the projectile points like the clovis and the the other points, the larger stone points, they were for typically spear throwing okay, yeah, well, it's interesting that palmetto bluff was was a start, a stopping point, and the ocean was further away from where it is now.
Speaker 1:Can you elaborate on that? Yeah?
Speaker 2:So it was. I mean, this area looked more like a Savannah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Open grassland area. The animals were different. The um, as I mentioned. The ocean was further away, so people were traveling to get to those resources that people use today, like the oysters shrimp. So this was just along their route.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting. So over the years, as the ocean kind of came back in, if I'm understanding correctly, the resources were more available. There was essentially more land versus just like long street rods or whatnot and kind of like the Savannah style, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the, as you know, the ocean came further in, the landscape changed into more what we have today maritime forest. The landscape changed into more of what we have today maritime forest, and the people were coming here, you know, versus continuing forward, right, very?
Speaker 1:cool man it's. It's so interesting to know that, because the property is so beautiful, you don't realize that it actually didn't exist at this level until the the years went on. That's right, wow, wow. So, um, during this period of time I know the colonial period is probably where a lot more starts happening. Maybe give us an overview to start things off with key events.
Speaker 2:What happened during this time period? That's notable surrounding area is that after 1450, we actually don't have people living here until the colonial era. Oh, wow the indigenous were not here. They were in other areas of Bluffton surrounding area, but they weren't here to live.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whereas they had been before. And we believe you know, one of the main things people need is fresh water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty important, right you?
Speaker 2:can always tell. A good place to live is based on them, you know especially in that period of time.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And so we believe there must've been a drought, or years of drought, and for some reason it just was. Instead of a place to come and hunt, take advantage of the forest and water resources, they just didn't settle here, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, so from uh to, to have it correctly from 1450 on. That's when we start to see settlement here well, we didn't, we didn't see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, all about. So in 1730 is when the land is actually purchased by Europeans.
Speaker 1:So that's probably the biggest key event to where we start to see humans actually here.
Speaker 2:Well, we would think yeah. But then nothing happens, and that actually happened quite often. Where the land is initially purchased, it's called a barony. It's 12,000 acres and the rights to it were purchased by Robert Wright and George Anson.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, interesting Anson right away.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's so cool and Wright passes away before they do anything with the land. But in 1757, george Anson and Wright's heirs divide up the property. You imagine 12,000 acres. That's a lot to do with, and yet they can't do anything with it because it's too big. So, they divide up the property into about 1,000 acre tracts.
Speaker 1:Okay, those tracts, 12 different heirs then.
Speaker 2:Well, no, it was just different people who purchased the land.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So that they could become plantation owners. A lot of people in outlying areas, especially in Purrysburg- Where's? Purrysburg, purrysburg, jasper County today Interesting. They had plantations there, they were looking to expand their holdings and so they started buying property here. So the first tract is actually purchased in 1757. And that's where the Canoe Club pool is. It's Mount Pillier and their areas were purchased by, like the Mungins, and they owned ended up owning quite a bit of property on the west side of the property.
Speaker 1:Now, who were the Mungins, because that's a name that I don't think our members listeners are probably as familiar with when it comes to the history here.
Speaker 2:So there were quite a few different Mungins John David Mungin, David John Mungin, you know.
Speaker 1:They work off that first. Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 2:And they owned property. What would become Plantation 8,? 9, and Plantation 7. Some plantationers just didn't change the track number.
Speaker 1:They just named them, rolled with it.
Speaker 2:Right when the marina is going. Anson, that was actually a plantation as well, and that would become later known as Big House Plantation, but that wasn't known as that until about 1850. So we don't know what it was called.
Speaker 1:During this time period. Yeah, I find it quite intriguing that Jasper County being less developed compared to other areas of Bluffton, and you know, of course, Hilton Head compared to other areas of Bluffton, and you know, of course, Hilton Head, that the expansion came to Palmetto Bluff and then you see, plantations start to take fold here.
Speaker 2:Right, well, so the lines were very different back then. It's Jasper County today, but all of actually Jasper County and Colleton County and part of Hampton County were all part of, eventually part of, the Beaufort District Interesting which then became. They separated, became Beaufort. Wow, the Beaufort District.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Which then became? They separated, became Beaufort.
Speaker 1:Wow, beaufort prevailed? I doubt it, wow, okay, so notable events. Plantations start to form here. Can you tell us a bit more from that period on? So we're in the colonial period. What happens next?
Speaker 2:So they start prospering, the plantations start growing. Now what you don't see, sort of there's a big difference between the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. So I want to-.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's dig in there, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the Revolutionary War, even within families, to a certain degree in the Civil War too. But within families you don't really know where their loyalties were.
Speaker 1:On which side of the war.
Speaker 2:On which side of the war and, even more so, regarding your neighbors, your neighbors Out here at Palmetto Bluff, we had some that were loyalists and some that were patriots. So loyalists meaning Tories, or those that wanted to stay loyal to the British crown, and patriots that were for becoming our own nation.
Speaker 1:Now, North and South is typically Civil.
Speaker 2:War Okay.
Speaker 1:Just making sure, because it's always great. There was a group of folks who were trying to remain loyal to the king in England and also a group that wanted this to be their own nation. Essentially, that's right, okay.
Speaker 2:And we have plantation owners. One of them in particular owned part of what was his father-owned Mount Pillier Plantation when he was 34. His dad gave him 200 acres to start his own plantation and he and his wife were very well-known loyalists and he was actually murdered out here at Palmetto Bluff.
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:For his Tory dealings. He was part of a group that attacked a group called the Bloody Legion.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And they were a patriot group and in retaliation they came on to Palmetto Bluff and killed him.
Speaker 1:So the initial altercation did not happen here on property, but they knew where his 200 acres were and came over here and got some vengeance.
Speaker 2:That's right. Then took his horse and several of his guns.
Speaker 1:Wow, what happened to his plantation during that time?
Speaker 2:So initially they kept it, but it was confiscated it was confiscated because he was supporting the british. But his widow successfully argued that because he died before the regulation went to effect. To confiscate his, you know, to confiscate, you know, the loyalist properties yeah, they ended up compensating her monetarily.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:She didn't get the land back, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but she got something out of it.
Speaker 2:Right. And then, after the war, she ended up marrying a Mungin, william Mungin, who owned Walnut Grove Plantation.
Speaker 1:Where is that located?
Speaker 2:Do you know the barge landing area?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, here on property, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So yeah, he was the owner of that and he and his family were very well-known patriots. So she went from being married to a well-known loyalist and the whole family supporting, you know, the British crown, to marrying after the war it's funny how those transitions seem to happen very quickly, even in this day and age.
Speaker 2:You know you can go from one extreme to the other yeah, they put the, you know, after the war, they put all their differences aside and that was you know how people moved on and a woman at that time was not considered to be able to take care of herself. She had had to remarry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Now Revolutionary War period of time. The transition here, specifically at Palmetto Bluff it sounds like Overby Canoe Club gets developed first. Now we've got Barge Landing coming into play here. Post-revolutionary War, this is still the colonial period.
Speaker 2:It switches to antebellum period after the Revolutionary War.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, so we'll dig in there a bit further in segment two. Now, obviously, the history is rich, with the murder, of course, and then this transition of families. What else happens during this time period?
Speaker 2:Well, the plantations are growing, and they're growing because of the enslaved. The enslaved, the people that were brought over to be enslaved, were brought over because of their knowledge. They're the ones who knew Of the land.
Speaker 1:Of the land. So this is our first glimpse of slavery here at Palmetto Bluff. Like we're really starting to see that evolve, right, okay.
Speaker 2:It starts early on, because the plantation owners would not have been successful without them.
Speaker 1:They literally wouldn't know what to do. They wouldn't no.
Speaker 2:The people that were brought over to be enslaved. They're the ones who had the knowledge to grow and harvest the crops that grow here. You know similar climate, soil conditions, and so a lot of what we consider southern food is actually West African food. So rice, watermelon, peanuts, collards, sweet potatoes you know all those different.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. That's interesting. So we see a lot of the crops today that are personal to this area, with the foods we eat. Start at this earliest of times, that's right.
Speaker 2:Wow. And those plantations, the enslaved are the ones who they didn't just grow and harvest the crops, they took care of the families, they built structures. So they were vital to the success of the early development here, that's right.
Speaker 1:Wow, now, with the setup of a plantation, I'm very unfamiliar. How many people are cohabitating here, like? How many slaves enslaved are there, like what does it kind of look like from an operation standpoint during this time?
Speaker 2:So during the Revolutionary War or earlier, the villages that would later become summer resort for plantation owners in the outlying areas were not there. So the plantation owners for the most part were spending. If they spent much time at all on the plantations, it was very little. The rest was spent in cities.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Like Savannah or Beaufort.
Speaker 1:So they're owning the land and getting everything shipped to the cities, right yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are. And Palmetto Bluffs location is ideal because it is close to Savannah Mm-hmm is ideal because it is close to savannah um the. On the plantations there were anywhere between 25 to 75 enslaved wow um and they were also taking care of, you know, the cattle you know the different livestock as well. So, and the landscape, so the setups of plantations, the plantation houses, face the river and that's because the main mode of transportation really don't, you know, was the river.
Speaker 1:Now that's how they're actually shipping the resources to Savannah.
Speaker 2:They are Wow.
Speaker 1:What type of boats are they using at this period of time?
Speaker 2:A lot of barges. Okay, now there were. Later on there were steamboats that ran actually between Palmetto, bluffs, bluffton, beaufort and Savannah, but for the most part they were barges. They were taking them over in barges.
Speaker 1:Now I assume the plantation owners would pay a fee to use the barge and there would be essentially the same logistics with how we ship things, even today.
Speaker 2:Unless they own their own.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, yeah. And during this time period, is it fair to say that the plantation owners are the wealthiest of wealth? And that's kind of the setup. We see a big difference in just socioeconomic status.
Speaker 2:You do, but not every plantation owner was successful. A lot of times it was because of their poor mismanagement, not because the plantation could not do that the enslaved were working and creating that opportunity for them, but sometimes they were just poor money managers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, business practices Like any small business or business today, wow. So it's very interesting to hear more about these early days, the early history here. Anything else to add as far as events go or even the challenges that folks faced? I?
Speaker 2:think the you know, one of the biggest challenges really was just honestly dealing with life, dealing with health care, yeah, and dealing with a new nation trying to understand.
Speaker 1:You know there was a lot of Things up in the air, it almost sounds like. So there was uncertainty during this period of time. Yeah, yeah, so obviously the natural resources start getting developed here, the early settlement period starts to bring kind of enterprise to Palmetto Bluff and or utilizing the resources to the different cities in this region. How does this set up for the next time period?
Speaker 2:Well, the this time period really is the beginning. The antebellum period is was the peak of the, the prosperity of this area of this area at that time so this is the land. Is was being, you know, purchased. Not all of the land had been purchased by the revolutionary war. We only had a handful of area, you know areas that had been purchased.
Speaker 1:Do you have an estimate of how many acres were still sort of available, because it does sound like it's just pockets here on property at this time. There were, and part of the problem is that you know we're relying on documents that from the there wasn't a formalized system, cause there wasn't a nation yet and you know you have a lot of fire you know, fires over the years, during the civil war and later, they really decimate our your history and your records.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the records and if we were lucky enough that also, you have to take into account that they weren't the most accurate. You know, if we have plats of the different tracks the tracks were based on. The tracks were based on 18th century technology, which were, you know, chains you know, chains for measuring for the track, the tracks, yeah. And you know, today we of course, we're lucky because we have GPS.
Speaker 1:We're not using chains anymore.
Speaker 2:And the plats. Back then they had trees on them, you know, as the property lines. Of course those trees are long gone, you know, because they would just mark the property with red oak, live oak, magnolia pine, you know, and go so and forth, so forth that way. So if we're lucky enough to have a plat, we don't always have somewhat accurate information, the full accuracy of the distances and the length of it.
Speaker 1:Well, it's so interesting to hear about the families that lived here early on the history. That was a part of the Revolutionary War and in this time period I am excited to dig into the historic period through the Civil War because there's probably a lot more things that begin to take place here at Palmetto Bluff.
Speaker 2:There are.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, thank you, katie. This is a great start to our series on the history of this vast property. Listeners, feel free to hang out with me for a few more minutes and get your healthy momentum for the rest of your week. Just last night I had the opportunity to have a deep heart-to-heart with a group of my close friends and we stumbled onto the topic of forgiveness. It was interesting to me because it's not something we think about often or tend to analyze personally. When we do something wrong or impact another human negatively, we really don't like to talk about it. We try to move on. At least I do so.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question when someone apologizes to you, how do you respond? What is your reply to that person Meaning? How do you exactly, word for word, respond to them? Maybe it's a casual response, like no worries or it's all good. Maybe it's an understanding response like thank you for apologizing, or I know you didn't mean to, or just maybe it's an accepting response. I love this response Like we all make mistakes or we're all human, no hard feelings. It's funny and ironic. Even if it's a casual, understanding or accepting response, we still don't naturally respond with the word forgiveness. The word doesn't cross our vocabulary much, and yet what I am just recently learning is that it's so powerful.
Speaker 1:Well-known speaker and leadership writer, john Maxwell, says forgiveness is a choice you can make because it not only releases the other person from any harm that they may have caused, but because it also releases the forgiver, the person who's coming to you or when you're going to that person. When you're going to that person, what's interesting about forgiveness is it allows you to be free from the nightmares of the past so that you can reclaim your dreams for the future. Have you ever gotten so caught up with the past that it freezes you in a relationship? As humans, even though we don't want to, we very much can fall into keeping score, especially with the people in our life. Keeping score is no way to live. Let me say that again. Keeping score is no way to live because it breeds judgment and it makes it impossible for others to meet our expectations. So for this week, I want us all, myself included, to switch our responses when someone in our life apologizes. Let's work on forgiving others without placing conditions on them and, as John Maxwell says, best forgiveness is not about keeping score, it's all about losing count. That message brings us to the end of our time together today.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed part one of our three-part series on the history of Palmetto Bluff. If you are a member who avidly listens, I would encourage you to share this episode with other members. I believe that everyone living on this amazing property deserves to know the historical roots of what once existed here, and Katie Epps is definitely the best person to get us up to speed. All other listeners, we do appreciate you tuning in every week. If there are certain conversations that you'd like to hear more of, please feel free to leave us a comment and, of course, as always, please rate us five stars. It will help other individuals find us so that they can actively participate in life on their terms. Thanks, everybody.
