Behind the Bluff
Uncover best practices to participate in life on your terms. Every week, hosts Jeff Ford and Kendra Till guide listeners with short conversations on trending wellness topics and share interviews with passionate wellness professionals, our private club leaders, and additional subject matter experts offering valuable tips. Each episode conclusion includes Healthy Momentum, five minutes of inspiration to help you reflect and live differently. Subscribe now and discover the keys to living your greatest active lifestyle.
Behind the Bluff
Breaking Free of Exercise Obsession I Kiersten Pagani
Fitness trainer Kiersten Pagani shares her powerful journey through exercise addiction and how she found her way back to a healthy relationship with movement after multiple injuries and surgeries.
• Exercise obsession defined as an uncontrolled relationship with working out driven by overwhelming urge rather than enjoyment
• Statistical insights: exercise addiction affects 3% of general population, 8.2% of gym members, 14% of endurance athletes, and 17% of elite athletes
• Workout addiction often intertwined with other disorders – 48% also have eating disorders and 56% suffer from depressive disorders
• The gradual shift from healthy habits to harmful compulsion often goes unnoticed by the individual
• Key warning signs include extreme guilt when missing workouts and prioritizing exercise over important relationships
• Exercise becomes permission to eat or punishment for eating in unhealthy relationships
• Kirsten's personal journey included teaching multiple classes daily while doing additional workouts
• Physical consequences included five ankle surgeries, spinal issues, and impending knee replacements
• Finding balance means viewing exercise as enjoyable rather than obligation
• Risk vs. reward assessment is crucial when choosing fitness activities
Exercise should be something you look forward to – a small but important fraction of your day that brings joy rather than anxiety or obligation.
Are you ready to live an active lifestyle? Welcome to Behind the Bluff, where we believe every moment of your life is an opportunity to pursue wellness on your terms. This week, we're continuing our fitness trainer series and we're going to be diving into what really matters when it comes to moving well, staying strong and keeping your body active for life. Today, we're joined with another one of our rockstar trainers, kirsten Pagani, and we're going to tackle a topic that doesn't get nearly enough attention, and the topic is when exercise goes too far. Together, we're going to explore how an unhealthy relationship with movement can lead to injuries and burnout and, more importantly, how to restore balance, protect your body and rediscover the joy of training for the long run. Kirsten, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Jeff. It's an honor to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm glad we could make this happen and I can't wait to jump into our topic on exercise obsession, because personally I've struggled with it and I know it's hard for many of our members listeners to kind of find that balance between what's enough and what's the dose that really helps lead them to their goals.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and I think in our field, in our fitness field, we're so used to dealing with people who don't exercise enough you know so a lot of times. As fitness professionals, we're trying to bring people to exercise. We're trying to motivate people and help them find just the joy in their life. So it's not something that you think about a lot, but on the flip side of it, I think a lot of fitness professionals ourselves deal with this.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, when you're passionate about something, professionals ourselves deal with this. Yes, yes, when you're passionate about something, you can, at times, take it a bit too far. Exactly, exactly. Well, you're the right person to talk about this and I can't wait to hear more. First, we had Gemley on Nadir and now it's your turn, so I'd love to have you, first and foremost, share a bit more about your background, certifications and what drew you into this field?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. I've been in the field gosh, over 25 years now. But in college I was originally an art major. I wanted to go into graphic design, visual art. So my first two years of college were all behind a drawing board and that was back in the 90s, before computer graphics. It was like actually pencil and hand and you know that was back in the nineties before computer graphics.
Speaker 2:It was like, actually, you know, pencil in hand and after gosh about a year and a half of that, I just had this almost a breakdown of. I don't know if this is what I want to do with my life.
Speaker 2:You know, I just sitting it's a very sedentary, you know role sitting at that drawing board for hours on end and I just felt kind of stuck. And I remember coming home to my mom and just having a little breakdown, a little come to Jesus moment of I don't know if I'm on the right path. And so my mom actually helped me. We talked it out, we did some research what else interests you? You know, those tests you can take personality tests of you know. So I did a lot of that and I did a 180 and wanted to go into athletic training. I decided, you know, I really like movement, I really like working with people. I was just myself starting to develop a relationship with exercise and so it really interested me. So I wanted to go into athletic training. So I applied to athletic training program at Southern Illinois University, didn't get in my first, my first application, so it was a competitive program it was a very competitive program, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the undergrad of it was basically along the same lines of exercise physiology. So I started with those classes and just absolutely fell in love. You know the anatomy and physiology, the biomechanics, kinesiology. I was just like this is where I want to be. I love studying the human body, how it moved, how it responded to things. I was like this is where I want to be. So I actually finished the exercise physiology program and about the semester before I was set to graduate I got into the athletic training program.
Speaker 1:Oh, no way, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And at that point I was like I'm done with school.
Speaker 1:I can't.
Speaker 2:I don't want another couple years, so I didn't go into it. And I don't know, looking back maybe that would have been cool, but it just didn't work out that way, and so I finished with the exercise physiology program While I was in college. That's when I got certified to teach group fitness.
Speaker 1:Wow. So it was that early on in your career where you dove right in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a lot of great mentors when I was in college and I'll never forget. One of them was like whatever you do before you graduate, get your first certification, Because once you get out into the real world and you start working, it's going to be really hard to find the time to get it. So, yeah, I buckled down before I even graduated college and got my first certification with ACE American Council on Exercise group fitness instructor, and so I started teaching classes at the SIU Rec Center.
Speaker 1:What types of classes did you begin with?
Speaker 2:Well, you know that was back in the nineties, so it was a lot of high, low aerobics, step aerobics. That was when, I don't know if you remember Taibo.
Speaker 1:Taibo. So you actually taught Taibo classes. Well, we couldn't call it Taibo oh yeah, cause you'd have to pay for the branding.
Speaker 2:So cardio, kickboxing, spinning that was when spinning, you know, first became the rage. So basically, if it was high intensity, it was cardio. I was teaching it.
Speaker 1:Very cool and these were choreographer classes. Yes, step aerobics.
Speaker 2:So my roommate in college and she's my best friend hey, beth, if you're listening she was also in the same program, and so I can't tell you how many hours we would be in our apartment in college, college, putting together choreography.
Speaker 1:Just practicing the steps, so when you show up, and lead a group. I'm sure it was large groups of people, huge groups of people, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know like three basketball courts full of college students doing these cardio classes. It was cool.
Speaker 1:We forget that in the 90s aerobics just was blowing up and there was so, so many folks taking this format of class where it's it's really switched on us. It must be cool for you to see where you're training now versus where you were and the focus Total shift.
Speaker 2:I remember I taught a class called red hot fat burning aerobics Red hot- Hot Fat Burning Aerobics Red.
Speaker 1:Hot Fat Burning Aerobics. Love that we might need to pop that up. I don't know. Bring that back. I don't know if that needs resurrected.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so that's how I got started. And then after college my first job was actually at a hospital-based fitness center up in the Chicago suburbs and then I was just a fitness specialist working the floor, you know, taking people's blood pressures as needed, cleaning equipment, just the grunt work basically. Still teaching a lot of classes, started some personal training. Then I transitioned to corporate fitness, corporate wellness actually, and Motorola, which was huge back then, especially up in the Chicago suburbs. I was in their corporate employee fitness center so we did Was it a large corporate headquarters?
Speaker 2:It was yeah, it was in Schaumburg, Illinois, One of the big headquarters for Motorola at the time, huge campus, and they had a fitness center for members. And then we also did a lot of wellness training. So we would go and do lunch and learns on you know it was a. It was a manufacturing plant so we would go and do lunch and learns on, you know, like safety and lifting and just you know, all of those short 30 minute topics just trying to keep the employees healthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, almost the functional movements that they're doing in their jobs, being able to educate them on how to lift properly. So I'm sure it would help keep the workers calm down but, more importantly, keep the workers safe.
Speaker 2:They had a great employee benefit of the wellness center. So you know they let people. Basically it was a free gym membership. You know, trying trying to keep the employees healthy.
Speaker 1:It was a really great program.
Speaker 2:Then from there I actually that took me out to Arizona for a couple of years because Motorola had a big facility out there. So I went out there and did that for a few years, kind of worked my way up, came back to Illinois and went back to the hospital based fitness centers kind of hospital-based slash park district fitness centers Kind of worked my way into management there doing some special program management. That's also when I got my official personal training certification. I went right for my CSCS, which National Strength and Conditioning Association Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. It's a mouthful.
Speaker 1:Gold standard, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So really I worked my butt off for that one. I'm really proud of that one. That was back in the early 2000s. So just kind of worked my way up from there, did hospital-based fitness center, I did commercial gyms. Just a lot of teaching and training, let's see, worked my way into Orange Theory. I was an Orange Theory head coach for a number of years, yeah, and then eventually found my way here.
Speaker 1:You've been in so many different settings and I imagine working with the different populations helps you with planning your programs for the various members that we have on property here. Yeah, we're just knowing those different needs. Working with the different populations helps you with planning your programs for the various members that we have on property here. We're just knowing those different needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've really worked with a large spectrum, whether it just be, you know, your general population wanted to stay healthy. I've done some prenatal. I have a prenatal certification, pre and postnatal fitness. I've done triathlon training Myself. I've done some triathlon. So I've worked with a lot of athletes. I've worked with a lot of cyclists, but then I've also done a lot of post-injury work. So people coming back from injuries and myself, as I've kind of gone through my own fitness journey and dealt with injuries which I'm sure we're going to get into later I've kind of shifted almost my own training philosophy too. You know, back in college when it was cardio, cardio, cardio, how many calories can I burn? And now it's all right. How do I stay fit despite two blown knees, a messed up back? Not only in myself, but I see that a lot in my clients too.
Speaker 1:That story resonates with so many people out there, because we went hard for years or we did things in ways that we weren't told were potentially a harmful approach, and then our bodies kind of pay for it later. So we sort of go about adjusting our training programs to work around some of those aches and pains, those previous injuries that have occurred. Yeah, so, thank you so much for sharing more about your background. I mean, I had no clue that you were at Motorola, which had to be such a fun start and art major Dang.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see the similarities, though, with art and fitness, because it is sort of an art to program for people and to get them in a motivation place where they keep going.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I don't think we always understand that different worlds, different professions there's so many similarities when we really break it down. So let's go ahead and move forward to our main topic today, which is exercise obsession, something that, on Behind the Bluff, we haven't spent too much time with. So I'm ecstatic to put a definition to this today, add some clarity and to help those out there who could be doing too much or maybe not enough, and helping us all kind of strike the right balance with our programs at home. So how do you define exercise obsession, or we'll even put the label exercise addiction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's tough because it's not like one day you can go from a normal relationship with exercise to exercise obsession. I think it's something that happens so gradually that it's hard to see when you kind of cross that line, until you're there and you look back or other people notice it. And I think a lot of times that's how it gets brought up. Is you know, your friends, your family, people around you pick it up before you do? But the definition would be almost an uncontrolled and obsessive relationship with working out. So it's your workouts are driven by an overwhelming urge rather than just a genuine enjoyment.
Speaker 1:It's like an I have to versus I get to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it starts to interfere with your normal day-to-day life. You start prioritizing workouts over your personal relationships, over your career responsibilities, over your well-being and the biggest thing and this is something that, looking back, I can see in myself you feel an extreme guilt or major anxiety if you can't get that workout in.
Speaker 1:I can relate to this a lot and I know we'll both get into our stories here in a little bit. What does it typically look like in someone's daily life? Exercise becomes their Holy grail.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah, you're putting it above everything else. You know you're not, you're. You're now missing those cues from your body. You're not listening to your body anymore and it's just, it's it. It takes over everything. Um, I picked up, I looked up a few statistics that really kind of blew me away that I wanted to share with you. But out of just the general population, 3% of those people exercise addiction affects 3% of our general population. Now, if you look at people who belong to a gym, people who belong to a fitness center so your regular exercisers, exercise addiction affects 8.2% of gym members. Now you get into endurance athletes 14% of endurance athletes are affected, and then elite athletes. So we're talking, like you know, your professional athletes, your ultra marathoners 17% of elite athletes.
Speaker 1:Have this unhealthy relationship with exercise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now here's where it really gets kind of scary. 48% of people with an exercise addiction also suffer from an eating disorder, so you know it gets intertwined. 56% also suffer from a depressive disorder and 31% of people with an exercise addiction also suffer from an obsessive compulsive disorder. So it really kind of exercise addiction kind of lies within this obsessive, compulsive or even impulsive spectrum of behavioral addictions, or even impulsive spectrum of behavioral addictions. But the thing is it's not even named as a disorder in the DMS-5, the Diagnostic Statistical Manual that are mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's out there, it's prevalent, but there's not enough research to actually stamp it as a disorder.
Speaker 1:Well, I think our focus has been so much on getting people moving and getting people exercise. It's almost like how can it be bad?
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. You don't think of it that way, it's just yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Anything taken to a level that starts to interfere with your everyday relationships and being able to say yes to important things in your life is critical to kind of pay attention to, and I think you made a good point really early on there that we may not know when it's happening to us until others reflect in, they lean into watching our behaviors. Because the worst thing that I always make this analogy with, especially with folks getting started, if you're going to take this to the point where you are so over the top that you can't go out and enjoy an evening at a restaurant without analyzing the menu and or being fearful of of that evening, then we're maybe being a little too restrictive, we're being a little bit too obsessed with the goals that we have. Now tell us about your journey. Was there a time where exercise went from being healthy to being something that started to take too much control?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. And you know, like I said, in the moment you don't see it. It's not until later that you can look back and pick up on the signs. So for me, like I said, in college, I discovered group exercise classes and for me I used it as a release. After sitting at the drawing table in my art classes all day, my girlfriend and I would go to the gym and take a cardio kickboxing class, and it was just a great release. Well, through that I started to lose some weight, you know, and started to kind of transform my look. And you know, just, you know, one thing kind of led to another and I really started to gain confidence through those classes, through the weight loss. And then, when I changed my major and got into the program, got certified to teach, then I was the one up on the stage teaching the classes, and the more that I taught, the more weight I lost. It just kind of snowballed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was almost like that attention felt good, that confidence that you got through, the changes that you were seeing made all the difference in the world for you to keep going and to keep layering it on.
Speaker 2:It did. And looking back and now, 25 plus years later, I can see I was fueled by the pursuit of aesthetics. It was very vain of me looking back when I was teaching. It wasn't about leading other people. It was very vain of me looking back. You know, when I was teaching it wasn't about leading other people, it was about it's about your workout, it's about me. Yeah, and you know it's kind of embarrassing to say it now that I was in it for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1:That's powerful though, that level of humility, to look back on how you were approaching your profession and to see how you approach it now, and not to take anything away from your story. That was a time and I think, the period of the United States where aesthetics and that lean, thin body type was what every female was after Absolutely, and the good news is we've seen that change. We've seen that strength and muscle is now something that we are after versus the quest for thinness, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's still an issue, especially now with social media. I really think that we live in a world with an unrealistic social beauty standards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, AI generated models.
Speaker 2:It's amazing how you know. You flip through a magazine and you look down at the fine print and it's like this isn't even a real person in this picture.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's sad, but yeah, I think especially with females, but males too. We have a huge problem with body image dissatisfaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not spoken about enough no. Now, how did you make the transition out of being in this place where leading the classes was for you, it was all about burning the calories. It was about continuing to build that confidence. What, what? Was there a turning point?
Speaker 2:You know, yes, there definitely was, but it was years, years, years later. Um, in college, just kind of, we talked about it, nutrition being intertwined with that it snowballed for me into an eating disorder. In fact, I remember at the time I was dating a guy and we went on a vacation with his family and, looking back, I would not go out to dinner because I was fearful of the calories and instead I would say I'll meet you guys after dinner, I'm going to go work out. And looking back, oh my gosh, I told my boyfriend's parents.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to go to a family dinner because a workout's more important, Like how messed up is that.
Speaker 1:And in that moment it didn't feel like a big deal.
Speaker 2:No, I felt powerful, Like I can go work out, like I'm better than you, you know, but yeah, looking back, it's embarrassing my actions, but you know, kind of fast forward, and at that time I didn't see it and I denied everything. And my friends, my family, they all saw it and they were trying to tell me and I just I didn't listen. You know, I denied everything. I didn't have a problem. I was, I was in control. It was about control.
Speaker 2:It was about power, you know. Um, in fact, I met my husband my last year of college. I met him in college, my now husband and um. I remember when I first met him, like I laid it out that, look, fitness is important to me Like workouts are important to me.
Speaker 1:This is a big part of my life.
Speaker 2:It's a huge part of my life. Um, I know I'm kind of messed up with my eating. Like I get it. If you want to walk away right now, go ahead and walk away Like I'm giving you the out great communication.
Speaker 2:You know what you're getting into basically. And look, he stuck around. We've been married 25 years. But yeah, once I got out of college and started working, like I still struggled with it but life kind of took over. But yeah, I don't know, just being in the fitness industry, I feel like sometimes we get pushed a little bit harder because we have to maintain that standard and motivate other people. You know, right after college I started training for half marathons and I was leading the half marathon training group. So I was the example. So you know it's hard because people are looking up to you and looking for you to guide them. So you want to set the best example.
Speaker 1:There's an added pressure.
Speaker 1:Whether we like, whether we like it or not, we are the role models for what I'll jokingly say the brand, and it is important that we can back our education with walking the walk.
Speaker 1:I've always thought that and this is part of that, though, going through these difficult times of doing too much and being in a place that we recognize as unhealthy and shifting out of there just with with experience and I'm speaking to that from the place of being that endurance athlete, being in that 15% statistic where literally, me personally, early twenties, without a relationship, training for Ironman triathlons, I would do 80 mile weeks and then I would binge on Saturday nights would be the only time that I had unhealthy food. I would literally eat a whole pizza and then I would specifically eat a lot of ice cream, and then any other day in the week I would not allow myself to do that, and at that time I was like 145 pounds, so there were certainly like aesthetical problems where my muscle was wasting away. So I completely relate to your story and what you're sharing and kind of that evolution of, quite frankly, until I met Lindsay. Then I finally shifted out and life sort of happens. You start to kind of reprioritize how you go about things yes, definitely.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I think too, after I got married, kind of got into my career, priorities did start to shift a little bit, especially once John and I had our first child. You know going through a pregnancy, and then I had, a couple years later, I had my second child. Now I continued to teach and train and do everything through my pregnancies, had healthy pregnancies, healthy babies. But then you know that second phase of life, after my pregnancies, I dealt with postpartum depression and so I went back to exercise as a coping mechanism.
Speaker 1:Really so, right after pregnancy, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:In fact, my very first triathlon I did less than three months after I had my second baby, who was a C-section baby, by the way. Wow, three months after Three months, three months after three months, three months, and you know, looking back at it, I definitely. You know I used the training for the triathlon as a way to deal with the post baby weight, um, deal with the depression I was going through. It was kind of an escape of that.
Speaker 1:Um, I think you remembered how much how good exercise makes you feel so when you're in a place like that. I'm sure it's a, it's easy to turn to it.
Speaker 2:It was life-saving, to be honest. And and then plus, you know, is again vanity kicking in getting that that praise from people. Wow, you just had a baby three months ago and you did a triathlon you are a rock star. Yeah, it just makes you feel so good, yeah, you know, and and looking, you're a rock star.
Speaker 2:It just makes you feel so good. And looking back, that's such the wrong thing to motivate me, but it is what it is. And then, as my kids got older and I was able to teach more and more classes, I got more and more certifications. I got additional cycle certifications I don't know if you're familiar with Les Mills classes body pump, body step all of that. I got certified in all that. I started to mentor other instructors in those programs and I got to the point where teaching and then personal training I lived at the gym again. My kids grew up in the childcare at the gym.
Speaker 1:They really did 10 to 12 hour days, like you were session after session.
Speaker 2:I would go in drop the kids off, knowing that when my husband got off work he would come and pick the kids up so I could stay and keep working. But I was teaching anywhere between two and four classes a day.
Speaker 1:Per day.
Speaker 2:And those were the classes that I was physically doing with the participants Expending the energy, yeah. And then on top of that, after my classes I'd go out and do my own workout, lift my own weights. I mean it was. I spiraled again after kids Almost more, I think, than college. Yeah, so you know, I kind of had a couple different episodes of this throughout my life.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate you sharing further there, where it has been a little bit of a roller coaster, with your own relationship with fitness and and how great to hear that from someone who's in the field, working alongside people to help them create their healthy relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, from your experience, what are the most common injuries or consequences? I think we've spoken a lot about the mental side of this, like that zone, that sense of achievement, the control, the aesthetics. But when we bring it back to the physical side, common injuries that show up from this level of overtraining.
Speaker 2:Well, you definitely have the physical consequences, the constant fatigue, the chronic pain. I mean you're breaking your body down. You know illness all the time and then you get into a hormone imbalance. You know losing the menstrual cycle, then the testosterone goes down, just those physical injuries stemming from overuse. You know, because your body's not getting that chance to recover, you're in that constant fight or flight. You know mode we can stem into those nutritional deficiencies, the eating disorders. The exercise and the eating really starts to get intertwined. You start to see your workouts as either a permission to eat or a punishment for eating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, permission versus punishment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know you also get to the point where it's affecting your mental health. Those workouts just become so monotonous and there's no joy in it anymore. It just feels like a chore. But if you don't do it, there's going to be major repercussions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's that internal dialogue.
Speaker 2:Definitely. It's almost an emotional dependence on that workout.
Speaker 1:Emotional dependence. Wow yeah, and pausing right there gift versus chore. I think that's what we're after, for folks is we want physical activity to be a gift, not a chore, and so many people don't achieve consistency because it has always been a chore and whether they just don't get their fitness level to that point where it becomes more enjoyable, or they're in this place where it's that I have to. If I don't do this, I can't do that and it's vicious. I think a lot of people today are going to relate to this conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is vicious, and that's one thing that with a lot of my clients, especially women, you know I want to make their workouts something that they look forward to, you know, because if it's not fun, you don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and if you're that person out there who has been exercising for the last 30 years because you want to look a certain way, this is a challenge here.
Speaker 2:It is. It's a tough mindset to change, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it definitely just going back to your story. It did not change overnight for you.
Speaker 2:No, not at all. In fact, I think you know, kind of, after that second bout where I got into teaching way too many classes a day, what stopped me in my tracks was injuries. You know, I got to the point where my body was just so broken that I went down hard, like my first injury while I was teaching. I was teaching a step class, you know, up there on a stage in front of a whole room of people. My body was just like and that's it, and I went down and I you like crashed like headfirst on the stage.
Speaker 1:It kind of felt that way at the moment.
Speaker 2:But no, it was just. A twisted ankle went down and my ankle hurt so bad I tore. I ended up tearing a bunch of ligaments.
Speaker 1:Dang.
Speaker 2:I sat on the stage with my microphone on, with the music going, and I continued to cue that class all the way through to the finish, all the way through. Someone from the class ran out, got me an ice bag, so I'm sitting there on the stage, ice bag on my ankle, still cueing five six seven, eight.
Speaker 1:It's ridiculous ice bag on my ankle still queuing five, six, seven and the details that you're sharing around this moment. It's it's what I refer to as a stake in the ground moment, where this is probably when your shift started to occur.
Speaker 2:It did, and you know not to get into all the details, but over the course of how many years? I don't know how many years, but I've had five surgeries between my right and my left ankle. All stemming from All stemming from overuse.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:One of my ankles I broke like a spiral, fracture nasty hardware, included multiple surgeries. The other ankle was that one where I went down tore a bunch of ligaments, cracked cartilage. So that was kind of the start of it, and then, of course, I did my best, went through my physical therapy. I'm gonna get through this got. I mean, I even taught in a boot at one point. I was teaching in a boot.
Speaker 1:I've been there, yeah, yeah, I had a stress fracture in my foot after doing way too much running, and I will tell everyone out there that being a personal trainer wearing a boot and being in a gym not a good look. It's like what did you do? You're supposed to be helping me not get injured and you have a boot on your foot, so it definitely lowers your credibility a little bit.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Then you know it kind of hurting my ankles. You know everything, the kinetic chain, everything's connected. So working through those injuries, continuing to push it traveled up and I ended up having issues with my lumbar spine and teaching so many cycle classes. Now I love cycle. I know you love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. It's my favorite.
Speaker 2:But being in that forward flex position on those handlebars, getting out of the saddle, cranking the you know just all of it. For that many years, plus everything else I was doing, I ended up having spondylolisthesis it's a hard word to say L4, l5, and then you know degenerative discs, bulging discs.
Speaker 1:And a lot of that via the repetition of those positions.
Speaker 2:You know thinking about teaching all the body pump that I taught. And you know, here we are cueing members on. You know long spine, shift your hips back, all of the safety cues and meanwhile I've got a loaded bar. I'm looking around the room trying to correct people's form. So it was just one thing after another, just compounded over the years, I ended up having to have lumbar spine surgery.
Speaker 1:Wow, I did not know that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's one of the main reasons I don't teach cycle anymore. But yeah, and then that led to you know, worked my way through that. Now, at this time I will say about the time I had the lumbar surgery is when I came off all of the high intensity classes and I transitioned out of the fitness center I was working at to Orange Theory.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Now, at the time which is still a high intensity program, Kirsten.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:However, Orange Theory coaches do a lot of just coaching, kind of similar to what we do here at Palmetto Bluff.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:We're more just coaching, correcting. We're not physically doing the workout with the class for the most part.
Speaker 1:For the most part. For the most part, yep.
Speaker 2:There's definitely a time and place for that. But Orange Theory at the time it was a gift. It was a gift from God, honestly, because it was God's way of telling me you need to get off the stage and you're done. Your body can't handle any more of those classes.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think we saw that shift in fitness in the mid-2000s 2010, where we start to become coaches versus instructors almost because instructors just has that connotation with you, do it with me and I think what we've noticed here, especially in our work with our members, the cuing, the correcting and coaching a class is way more beneficial to the participant and, as you're sharing, way more beneficial to our bodies.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and it was amazing to making that shift, how much more of a connection I could make with the participants and with the clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. That had to feel good, because not only were you taking care of your body at this time, but it almost felt like you were providing a better service at that at that. Well, this whole time, I've really appreciated your vulnerability. I think these are the types of conversations that we have to continue to have in health and wellness, specifically as the expectations continue to grow, the pedestals we try to put ourselves to or look up towards can be kind of a false reality, so we've got to keep things in check as we go about living healthy and participating in life on our terms. Before we jump into the rapid fire round, I want to just allow you some final words for our listeners about creating a sustainable, joyful relationship with exercise. What would you tell them?
Speaker 2:relationship with exercise. What would you tell them? You know, exercise needs to be enjoyable. It needs to make you feel good. You should definitely see progress over time.
Speaker 2:However, it shouldn't rule your life, so it shouldn't even rule your day. You know if loved ones or even your coaches here at Palmetto Bluff, you know if concerns are starting to be brought up, it's because they care about you. So, listen, you know if somebody starts to say, hey, you know, this is really like kind of taking over, you know we care about you. You know we see it and, like we said in the beginning, other people are going to see it before you do. Um, sometimes it takes somebody on the outside looking in to see those red flags. But yeah, the biggest thing and like I said before with my clients, I want you to look forward to exercise like it should be a very small fraction of your day. It should definitely be a part of your day, even if it's just going out on a walk. Um, you know we're not. We weren't made to be sedentary, we weren't made to just sit around. Um, but yeah, it should be something that you look forward to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great words of wisdom, kirsten. We appreciate that. Now, rapid fire time. Okay, what's a fitness trend you love and one you think is overrated?
Speaker 2:You know, one thing that I really love and kind of goes along with fitness, but more nutrition. I love that people are really starting to eat cleaner. I love that we're getting away from the chemicals in our diet. I grew up with the whole. It's fat-free, it's sugar-free, it's only one Weight Watcher point and sorry, mom, if you're listening, but that's just how I grew up and I am so glad we're getting away from that because just the research has shown how detrimental that is to our diet, to our health. So yeah, and then overrated. This is a tough question, honestly, because when it comes to fitness trends, if it's something that gets someone moving, I'm all for it.
Speaker 1:I'm with you there.
Speaker 2:So if it gets them excited, great, I'm going to support it. But, that being said, I'm a huge component of risk versus rewards, so I'm not going to support anything if the risks outweigh the benefit. Just the other day I was on my phone scrolling through Instagram watching some reels, and it's my guilty pleasure watching. Instagram reels and there are so many. You know air quote fitness influencers out there and it drives me crazy.
Speaker 1:There are so many and there's so many coaches out there wanting to help you build your network to be a fitness influencer. It's beyond me and most of these fitness influencers.
Speaker 2:they have no background, they have no education.
Speaker 1:That's wild. They look great, they do yeah.
Speaker 2:But I saw this video and I just I couldn't believe it. So this trainer had this. I guess it was a soccer athlete. This person had a thick rogue resistance band strapped around the bottom of a rack, so it was like a tight rope and they had their client balancing on that with a barbell racked across their back, doing squats.
Speaker 1:Sounds safe Right.
Speaker 2:Like how, why why?
Speaker 1:What are we doing? What are we doing here?
Speaker 2:So yeah, anything like that. You know doing barbells on a band suspended in the air, barbell squats.
Speaker 1:Anything that's so complicated where it's just not necessary is probably the message here. But I love that concept. I think people can take risk versus reward, especially later in life and in general. Even I'm in my late 30s. There's certain things I'm not going to do in fitness because of the risk reward. And one quick disclaimer, just cause I want to put it out there Do not rebound from a box, jump. Never do that. The risk reward is not worth worth that. That's when you jump off a box and then jump immediately back up on the box. Too many blown Achilles.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, Way too many, and I think too with you know, our clients here in Palmetto Bluff.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be complicated. Let's just stick to the basics. Yeah, right on, all right. Next question what's your favorite cardio machine?
Speaker 2:If I'm going to do cardio in the gym, I'm just going to go get on the elliptical. Okay, elliptical, yeah it's. It's so smooth and great on my you know blown out knees at this point that both need to be replaced. I've been told I need two knee replacements.
Speaker 1:That's another you have been told two knee replacements.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's coming. I'm too young right now they won't do it.
Speaker 1:But it's coming.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I love a good cardio workout, a good elliptical workout.
Speaker 1:How about favorite strength movement? You can only choose one.
Speaker 2:I would choose any type of a row for me. Nice Pulling you know, working that posterior chain, our society. We're so forward flexed, whether we're on our phones, we're driving, we're just everyone's posture is so bad. I'm big on back, so any type of a pull a row, a cable row, for me, I'm with you there.
Speaker 1:So many different angles too. You can do that row from Final rapid fire. What is one small daily action you believe compounds into lasting health and performance?
Speaker 2:For me it's sleep. Sleep is so important Just to let our bodies recover, to let all the processes happen that need to happen to keep us healthy. I myself, if I don't get nine hours minimum of sleep a night, I need at least nine.
Speaker 1:Nine. Yeah, you're on that upper spectrum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, nice, so important though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm with you there. We take sleep very seriously in the Ford household. All right, kirsten. Wow, this has gone by extremely fast. Final question what does wellness mean to you?
Speaker 2:It's taking time daily to focus on my mental health, my emotional health, my physical health and my spiritual health. All of those aspects are equally important and if one gets out of balance, they all shift one gets out of balance, they all shift.
Speaker 1:Hmm, well, appreciate you so much, kirsten. Uh, thank you for all you do for our members. You know, since you've joined the team here at Palmetto Bluff, I feel like, honestly, we've we've just continued to taken off tons of other incredible people that we get to work with our membership. Um, we, we couldn't run the program we do without you.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you so much. You know it's an honor to be part of this team. We have the best team.
Speaker 1:It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. We do.
Speaker 2:I've worked with a lot of people and everyone on the team here is just so professional, so knowledgeable. We really we do have a team of rock stars here, and I'm really pumped to be part of it.
Speaker 1:So thank you, we're happy to have you, and thanks so much for sharing your story today.
Speaker 1:I know that's going to resonate with so many people. Listeners, feel free to hang out with me for a few more minutes and get some healthy momentum for the rest of your week. Have you ever heard the phrase healthy obsession? I was thinking about it after my conversation with Kirsten and it came to me that that cannot be possible. You cannot be healthy and be obsessed when you really think about it and I think for so long with exercise and nutrition.
Speaker 1:Obsession is glorified If you do it perfectly and you have the perfect figure, if you do it perfectly and you have the perfect figure. That's who I want to be, and for some reason in this world we've been led to believe that it's okay to be obsessed with exercise, it's okay to know every single ingredient that you're putting into your body. And I guess the question becomes for us today, after digging in here on the podcast when is it at a place where you've taken it too far? Only you can know for sure. But for me, there's two big factors that drive us to pursue health beyond the bounds that are potentially needed, and one is a psychological factor. We all suffer from it. I know you do, because I do Perfectionism. Why exercise if we can't do it perfectly. And there's a second factor, a big one, that was brought up in the conversation today. It's a social factor our pressure to fit in. Everybody wants to fit in. Everybody wants to be liked, even if you say you don't. And we have these portrayals in the media that, in order to fit in, we should look a certain way. And so I think what we have to hang on to this week is that there is nothing that is healthy when you pair the word obsession with it.
Speaker 1:Life is about balance, and obsession, by definition, is when you have an excessive and uncontrollable urge towards a behavior, and what I found interesting about realizing this is that sometimes, these obsessions that we have, the reason we're obsessed, is because they give us that sense of control, even though when we look back years, decades, we weren't in control at all.
Speaker 1:And so the question I have for you this week is not just about exercise. Think about obsession with your work, with your family, think about the other buckets of your life and ask yourself are you spending too much time in one of those accounts? And if you are, what's the hidden cost? A hidden cost when it comes to obsession is that what you're doing may look like dedication to your family, to your exercise plan, to your work, but the hidden cost that is perceived as dedication, commitment, discipline could be the very thing causing you the stress, the guilt and the unhealthy pressure that consumes you. That is a wrap on this week's episode. I want to thank you for taking the time to tune into our third installment of our trainer series and I look forward to sharing more of our incredible team with you in the near future. Remember to actively participate in life on your terms.
